Flyfunston

Many H-2 pilots at the last FF meeting shared just how desperately they needed a good, safe place to soar and build hours for their H-3 rating. H-2's are not allowed to soar at Fort Funston proper, but they can use the Funston Training Bowl as a jumping off spot to access and soar the lower cliffs to the south.
Over the years of winter storms, the Training Bowl has been rendered useless due to erosion. I offered to lead a movement to get the Training Bowl back in service. The first step is to confer with the instructors who have actual experience working with students in the bowl. I hope to meet with two guys in particular but our schedules have not worked out.
Please monitor this thread for news and how you can help!

This sounds like a work in progress that will definitely benefit new H2's later on down the road...

In the meantime, I recommend the following to new H2's waiting to fly Funston:

* Work on getting your 600' and 1750' sign-off at Ed Levin. Fly off those hills as much as possible in varied conditions within the limitations of your rating
* Try flying Marina with an observer or instructor. The flying techniques you learn at Marina will greatly benefit you at Funston
* Encourage experienced pilots to host site introductions at McClure, Hat Creek, and Big Sur
* Enjoy sledders when you can get them (there'll be plenty more of those in your flying career!)...use those fights as an opportunity to eek out as much airtime as possible
* Work on getting your H3 spots
* Study for your H3 written exam
* Work on getting your H3 tasks signed-off
* Read the Fort Funston Primer, by Kent Harker
* Latch onto a mentor and don't let go!
* Enjoy this period of your flying career!
* Contact a local observer or instructor for help in all these areas

Chris
650-863-1298

I walked the training bowl last weekend with both Henry Bittner (our official Training Bowl Director) and Tom Jensen, another old time pilot who trained there.

I now have an improvement plan in mind and just need to clear it with the GGNRA before we do any terra forming.

We also need to agree on a set of guidelines that will allow people to fly a challenging area and yet keep them safe.

One concern is that at high tide, there is virtually no beach to land on, and even at low tide the narrow beach would require any flight plan to include TOD. (Turn or Die!)

A second concern is that soaring of the small south cliffs would require low turns in high wind, something very demanding of a typical H-2 skill level.

We will need skilled mentor / instructors if this program is to work.

Special sign off's for the ability to TOD and also perform consistent cross wind landings will no doubt be part of the deal.

In addition to improving the Training Bowl, fellow Tandem Instructor Gordon Pollock and I have been talking about offering tandem flights at the Fort to teach H-2's how to ridge soar. Proven flight skill's could lead to an easy sign off.

Stay tuned for further developments!

Steve Rodrigues
USHPA # 30605

Currently our Site Rules state the following:

A Hang II launch must be sponsored by an experienced Funston pilot. A Hang II may not soar or fly north of the drain pipe (just north of launch) and must glide directly to the beach.

I think the weak area in this rule is how we define "experienced Funston pilot". Personally I'd like to see "experienced Funston pilot" replaced with "oberserver or instructor".

My other concern with H2's soaring the lower dunes is risk of flying when tide is high as well as pedestrian traffic, etc. Otherwise, I feel the lower dune area(s) would greatly benefit H2's and provide them with "scratching" and soaring skills similar to Marina.

Chris

Update 3-21-08

Our cool GGNRA ranger is transfering back east this week so our request to groom the training bowl has been passed to another person for review.

As a result, the approval is being delayed by a few weeks.

Stay tuned....

Hi , I respectfully disagree Chris.. I believe making H2's have an observer or instructor witness/coach/approve EVERY flight from Funston is to restrictive. What problem are we trying to solve? Why the change? I think we should SAFELY encourage new pilots (H1/H2) to fly Funston and the training bowl, get their H3, not create more unneccessary impedements.

I agree Chris that perhaps "Experienced Funston Pilot" may be to general or subjective. If we need to... I propose instead that the initial one or two flight from the top of Funston be signed off by an Instructor or observer, after that we could default to the legacy requirement? The criteria would be to make sure the student had a solid flight path (for each flight) based on wind direction and speed. The new pilot should be able to say I will turn after so many seconds etc etc with the goal of hitting a spot on the beach. The observer/instructor should approve top flights based on that as a minimum and other considerations. My proposal would help improve the safety of the pilots first flight(s) without discouraging subsquent flights.
respectfully..
Tom Jensen

Steve, When you speak with the park ranger about this you could also indicate that our changes would improve drainage and be replanted with grass seed (this would arrest some of the erosion concerns). This would be very easy to incorporate.
Regards

Tom,

I like your ideas and think they are a better option...I don't mean to impede one's efforts, just add a little more safety to avoid recent H2 incident(s) at the Fort...

Chris

Tom,
Yes, I've focused our request on safety and erosion control. I've contacted her and she is checking with others. Hope to have good news soon!

At McClure I've seen an instructor standing on launch directing a H2 via radio to a successful sled ride. What about doing something similar at Funston to allow soaring on the upper ridge? The H2 pilot would be required to have a radio on their down tube to provide one-way communication from an instructor. And the instructor could be flying behind him to know exactly what kind of air the H2 is in.

Also, I'm sure some pilots have heard of putting special H2 streamers on the glider to signal other pilots to watch out, the same way everyone watches a driver's training car like a hawk.

Dave

I learned to SOAR in that bowl

The important thing about any sponsorship is the SPONSOR is more than casually familiar with the pilots skill set. I do think any "sponsored" flight that ends in an accident should be reviewed to determine if the sponsorship was in error, suspending the sponsors privilege of Sponsorship for a period if it was.
This is not to say a sponsor be taken down for a simple blown landing.

At least one crash could have been prevented if the sponsor was in radio contact with the H-2. (the pilot flew too far behind the ridge and got into rotor) I totally agree that radios should be a requirement for H-2's until they have learned the lay of the land.

I also think "student driver" streamers are a great idea.

I'm still working on a rough draft of the rules and guidelines for the FF mentor program but expect to have it worked out before the 2009 flying season.
I really appreciate the ongoing suggestions, please keep them coming!
Steve R

fakeDecoy wrote:At McClure I've seen an instructor standing on launch directing a H2 via radio to a successful sled ride. What about doing something similar at Funston to allow soaring on the upper ridge? The H2 pilot would be required to have a radio on their down tube to provide one-way communication from an instructor. And the instructor could be flying behind him to know exactly what kind of air the H2 is in.

Also, I'm sure some pilots have heard of putting special H2 streamers on the glider to signal other pilots to watch out, the same way everyone watches a driver's training car like a hawk.

Dave

Hey Guys,

The bowl needs lots of work. Bulldozer level work. Its no where near ready for using as good first day training hill and that area is absolutely not appropriate for the average hang II learning to soar. That said, hear me out. Let me explain my reasoning. The bowl and the low cliffs require solid hang IV skills to fly in the light winds that hang IIs are allowed to fly in. Now there are lots of guys who flew there as hang IIs but MANY of them had bad crashes there. Eric Mies taught himself to soar there but he once told me of getting rotored in slamming into the ground very hard. Eric is made of manzaneta, others would have broken bones. Regarding training in the bowl, as Michael Jefferson said, Ed Levin really is so much better for training first time students that anyone really serious about training, and with any significant experience training students, will take them to Ed Levin where they can learn one skill at a time with out getting overwhelmed and frustrated.

Reasons for not allowing hang IIs to soar the low cliffs and bowl:

1. Tricky Rotor, Low and Slow- The bowl and the low cliffs have faces that are abrupt, sharp and face every which way. To soar them the hang II NECESSARILY needs to be flying low and slow and close in to the terrain in order to be able to soar in that area. This is a recipe for crash after crash.

2. Control - Most hang IIs do not have complete control of their glider and can not put it exactly where they want it, and yet to soar the low cliffs this is exactly what is required. They need the air time, high up and safe, to learn where to put their glider. Now this in not true of all hang IIs. Some hang IIs could fly that area and probably get a way with it a more than few times but the mountains, or a nice big straight rounded ridge (like at marina), are much better alternatives. I know the bowl and the low cliffs intimately. Ive trained many students there in the past when the bowl was nicely shaped. Ive had hang IIs soaring the bowl but even then I didn’t have them try and soar the low cliffs, its just too tricky and the consequences of putting the glider in the wrong place are too high. The low cliffs jump in, jump out, face south, face north, and that dirt is hard as rock and with soaring winds there are so so so many places to get suckered into and rotored in. We are not doing an air-horny hang II any favor by getting them soaring the low cliffs. They will get the airtime easier and safer in the mountains. Realize also that when most of you actually fly the low cliffs you are flying in strong smooth conditions that allow you to fly high above the details of the terrain so it feel very easy while tootling down to westlake. Try it when its light, in the kind of wind a hang II can fly in, in a small hang II glider. You will not feel so at ease.

3. Wind – Soarable wind takes a crash from just glider damage, to serious injury really fast. I know from experience that advanced pilots who have not trained many hang II do NOT realize the totally illogical things a hang II can do when their mind is completely MAXED out. Hang IIs DO, always, surprise their instructors with unexpected moves, i.e. turning too late, going too far down wind, flying too low too far behind an obstruction. We train hang IIs in light wind in forgiving sites for a very good set of reasons that should not be taken lightly. I have seen and been part of what can go wrong with hang IIs. They want it so bad, you want to see them get the feel of soaring, they have some good skills, but they just surprise you with the crazy things they do sometimes and it just comes from not having enough air time. That 20 hour requirement for a hang III is just about right and we need to get the hang IIs that time, get them their hang III, and then gently mentor them into the air at Funston.

Ok, that said, I love seeing new pilots on the scene too. That’s why I taught hang gliding for so many years. I love new pilots. I think it may be possible to get selected hang IIs air time at Funston on our main cliff, Not the bowl or low cliffs. It must be done very carefully, however, and only in the sweetest conditions.

Id also like to comment on what Steve Urbach said “The important thing about any sponsorship is the SPONSOR is more than casually familiar with the pilots skill set.” It doesn’t matter who the instructor is, unless they have experience with the student, how can they safely judge their skill level. Steve Suggested Tandem. Steve and Gordo!!! This may be the path to take to sign off hang IIs to fly with a Mentor. If we are to find away to allow hang IIs to fly at Funston we are taking on a huge liability for the club. Its got to be done carefully.

And, yes, it sucks hiking it up and down the damn cliff and up the bowl!! There are better ways to get airtime for our hang IIs !!


Best regards,

Henry

I fully agree, I got my hours at the fort last spring. I have to prove myself time and time again before Tom Jensen let me sour the training bowl. Mike Jefferson had got me to a H2 with three hours. the exchange of student pilot is very important. the three of us would hang out on the cliffs edge and chat about different idea's and hazards.

I had to hit the x on the beach three time before I could move forward. I tried flying the lower cliffs numerous times with no time, but to land. We would talk about a flight plan and I would stick to it. The second I deviated, I would simply head toward the beach. It took me 19 times up and down the cliff so i made every flight count...!!